Public Sector Jobsworths

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soopaslooth
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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by soopaslooth » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:57 pm

1) The PM isn’t a civil servant, he's the head of the executive, an elected politician. Civil servants are unelected employees of the state, paid to impartially serve the government of the day.

2) His pay is kept artificially low for political reasons – there would be uproar if he was seen to be creaming it off the top of the public purse. Can you imagine a CEO of a major corporation (which is probably still an underestimate of the level of personal responsibility he has) with a salary anywhere near as low as his?

3) There are some in the public sector who are doing very well, and will genuinely retire with gold plated pensions, and there are good arguments that they shouldn’t be paid so well. But how many council chief execs are there? No more than one for each council. That’s a tiny fraction of a percent of all the public sector workers in the country, almost all of whom are on very modest salaries. It’s no more representative of the vast majority than the obscenely large salaries earned by bankers are representative of all private sector workers. I don’t think you’d agree that because some people working in financial services earn millions, every private sector worker in any job and on any salary no matter how low should take a pay cut.

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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by Thrash » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:19 pm

soopaslooth wrote:1) The PM isn’t a civil servant, he's the head of the executive, an elected politician. Civil servants are unelected employees of the state, paid to impartially serve the government of the day.

2) His pay is kept artificially low for political reasons – there would be uproar if he was seen to be creaming it off the top of the public purse. Can you imagine a CEO of a major corporation (which is probably still an underestimate of the level of personal responsibility he has) with a salary anywhere near as low as his?

3) There are some in the public sector who are doing very well, and will genuinely retire with gold plated pensions, and there are good arguments that they shouldn’t be paid so well. But how many council chief execs are there? No more than one for each council. That’s a tiny fraction of a percent of all the public sector workers in the country, almost all of whom are on very modest salaries. It’s no more representative of the vast majority than the obscenely large salaries earned by bankers are representative of all private sector workers. I don’t think you’d agree that because some people working in financial services earn millions, every private sector worker in any job and on any salary no matter how low should take a pay cut.
Fair enough... you seem to be well informed on the subject & present your points in a very professional & concise manner. I am merely throwing in my ill-informed tuppence worth which has proved to be just that! :)

I'm no longer going to comment on the matter.... anyone know where I can find some hardcore? ;)

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c_funk
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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by c_funk » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:23 am

dj jedi wrote:
soopaslooth wrote:But would you be happy for people on minimum wage to care for you when you go into hospital, to advise ministers on complex policy issues that effect you, to enforce the law, to make the parliamentary process happen effectively and maintain democratic/constitutional values, to teach your kids, etc etc? I'd personally rather pay an average salary to someone who knows what they're doing and cares about it, than to pay a minimum salary to someone who cant get anything better and might otherwise be drinking cider in the park. We need to reward people comensurately with what we ask of them and the level of responsibility they have, otherwise you will get the level of intelligence and competence you witness in McDonalds.
I like your idealogy, but in my experience it's flawed. Example - the building trade. The arse has fallen out of it because of 'bloody foreigners.' The truth behind it is that foreign workers are cheaper, harder working, and in many cases more skilled. Would I rather have a cheap Polish builder plaster my walls than an expensive lazy cowboy Englishman? Yes please.
talking bollox. theres as many lazy migrant workers as english. im a carpenter and i have to put right quite a lot of work that has been done by cheap workers. you cant make generalisations like that when you know nothing about it

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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by dj jedi » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:38 am

I'm not saying all English builders are lazy and all Polish builders (or carpenters in your case) are better, I'm saying that a lot of low paid/unskilled jobs have gone to foreign workers that are willing to do the same job for less money. That's a fact as far as I understand and see in day to day life. It's even true at the design agency I work at.

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livvy
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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by livvy » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:46 pm

dj jedi wrote:I'm not saying all English builders are lazy and all Polish builders (or carpenters in your case) are better, I'm saying that a lot of low paid/unskilled jobs have gone to foreign workers that are willing to do the same job for less money. That's a fact as far as I understand and see in day to day life. It's even true at the design agency I work at.
Yes they can afford to work for less seeing as all the polish worker rent 1 house and all 50 of them all live in it which amounts to paying peanuts for rent

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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by dj jedi » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:26 pm

livvy wrote: Yes they can afford to work for less seeing as all the polish worker rent 1 house and all 50 of them all live in it which amounts to paying peanuts for rent
Exactly - I know you're probably joking, but that is most people's mentality. "Bloody foreigners!" The truth is that most people in this country don't realise how lucky they are - they think they're hard done by because they 'only' live in a free council house and 'only' get £600 free money every month as payment for sitting around watching Sky TV. Are you really surprised that so many foreigners are happy to come here and work for what you call 'peanuts', even though in fact it offers a decent standard of living compared to most places in the world?

And now we have civil servants moaning that they'll get less free money for the rest of their life when they retire, that far exceeds their contributions. Get real.

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Re: Public Sector Jobsworths

Post by livvy » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:45 pm

dj jedi wrote:
livvy wrote: Yes they can afford to work for less seeing as all the polish worker rent 1 house and all 50 of them all live in it which amounts to paying peanuts for rent
Exactly - I know you're probably joking, but that is most people's mentality. "Bloody foreigners!" The truth is that most people in this country don't realise how lucky they are - they think they're hard done by because they 'only' live in a free council house and 'only' get £600 free money every month as payment for sitting around watching Sky TV. Are you really surprised that so many foreigners are happy to come here and work for what you call 'peanuts', even though in fact it offers a decent standard of living compared to most places in the world?

And now we have civil servants moaning that they'll get less free money for the rest of their life when they retire, that far exceeds their contributions. Get real.
Can you actually explain who sits around in a free council house gets £600 pm ect and no I didnt say Bloody Foreigners I was quoting facts yes Polish workers can work for less, as stated they rent a house between them which amounts to paying peanunts (for each) to chip in per month

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