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Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:27 pm
by Restless
dial1 wrote:I don't hate happy hardcore. I find it amusing. Inferior? yes. Hate it? definitely not. There are worse things in the world, like smooth jazz or country.

I don't find it intolerable. It's just that visually and from a tactile perspective the images are just far too inappropriate for a rave. I wouldn't want to be on the floor in stitches at a rave whilst everyone wonders whether I've gone off the rails.
Nothing wrong with Jazz, mate. Great genre with a TON of what you look for in a sound - soul.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:27 pm
by Traffic Cone
dial1 wrote: I know this is an awful generalisation and snobbish stereotype but I couldn't imagine going to an HH rave and talk about getting beaten up/treated atrociously by the cops because I'm not white. It just feels like escapism, which is fine, but I like my escapism to be aware of the fact that is escapism and still keep its psychic armour on.
i think your mistake there is applying the characteristics of a style of music to someone's entire personality :-k that's quite a black and white way of looking at things. i'd say most people who like it do like other music as well, usually - quite a wide range. you know, like any other style of music.

i'm not sure that having a bit more darkness is more "self aware" either. i think we do have a general cultural idea that darkness has depth inherent in it. and that light implies naivete, or lack of sophistication. i don't really agree with that: sometimes enjoying "light" art - like happy music - is understanding how awful the world is and wanting to enjoy the good parts. and i don't think art needs to explicitly reference that, to be enjoyed in that way.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:45 pm
by Richruffcut
Is this a serious question? If so just don't go to a hhc rave maybe

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:37 pm
by dial1
Traffic Cone wrote:
dial1 wrote: I know this is an awful generalisation and snobbish stereotype but I couldn't imagine going to an HH rave and talk about getting beaten up/treated atrociously by the cops because I'm not white. It just feels like escapism, which is fine, but I like my escapism to be aware of the fact that is escapism and still keep its psychic armour on.
i think your mistake there is applying the characteristics of a style of music to someone's entire personality :-k that's quite a black and white way of looking at things. i'd say most people who like it do like other music as well, usually - quite a wide range. you know, like any other style of music.

i'm not sure that having a bit more darkness is more "self aware" either. i think we do have a general cultural idea that darkness has depth inherent in it. and that light implies naivete, or lack of sophistication. i don't really agree with that: sometimes enjoying "light" art - like happy music - is understanding how awful the world is and wanting to enjoy the good parts. and i don't think art needs to explicitly reference that, to be enjoyed in that way.
There's plenty of beautiful, emotive, jazzy and soulful deep house, for instance that just gives off overwhelmingly positive vibes. and doesn't taste like eating a sweetened really processed burger.

So what's more valid about the positivity of HH? I'm genuinely trying to understand it.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:38 pm
by dial1
Restless wrote:
dial1 wrote:I don't hate happy hardcore. I find it amusing. Inferior? yes. Hate it? definitely not. There are worse things in the world, like smooth jazz or country.

I don't find it intolerable. It's just that visually and from a tactile perspective the images are just far too inappropriate for a rave. I wouldn't want to be on the floor in stitches at a rave whilst everyone wonders whether I've gone off the rails.
Nothing wrong with Jazz, mate. Great genre with a TON of what you look for in a sound - soul.
JAZZ IS THE TEACHER. Just not Kenny G and all that smooth shit.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:12 pm
by dial1
This is one of the few happy tunes I like. nice spliffhead tune. They should have stuck to making tunes for herb smokers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRzoYZLQljY

And this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auwg3zh6PLM

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:15 pm
by maxxvinyl
Can't beat a bit of Kenny G, G Force, classic saxcore :smile:

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:47 am
by Traffic Cone
dial1 wrote: So what's more valid about the positivity of HH? I'm genuinely trying to understand it.
Well, I think that's your trouble, that's not what I'm saying :p

I think you can only "understand" music so far. There's so much tied up in individual taste, memories and personal experience. We don't all feel the same things when listening to a piece of music. So there's only so much I can tell you about how much a cheesecore classic makes me feel - if it makes you vomit then you're never really going to "understand", i don't think. And it feels strange to say that either one of our feelings is "right".

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:25 am
by dial1
Traffic Cone wrote:
dial1 wrote: So what's more valid about the positivity of HH? I'm genuinely trying to understand it.
Well, I think that's your trouble, that's not what I'm saying :p

I think you can only "understand" music so far. There's so much tied up in individual taste, memories and personal experience. We don't all feel the same things when listening to a piece of music. So there's only so much I can tell you about how much a cheesecore classic makes me feel - if it makes you vomit then you're never really going to "understand", i don't think. And it feels strange to say that either one of our feelings is "right".
I think my problem with HH is most of it literally sounds like the first time you take MDMA. I'm not a fan of MD more than 3-4 times a year, would rather do acid and smoke spliff in a rave and meditate on paranoid and serious shit.


Like, it's a bit like psychedelic trance in that regard. Most dance music just sounds better on drugs, house, techno, jungle, garage, grime/dubstep, but most HH just sounds like E. and I find E to be an emotionally vapid drug. Love it to bits but it's not serious or intelligent, cos it only ever has shown me what I want to see, which is really quite conservative and predictable. But psychedelics are messy and unpredictable, which is a bit like life.

Is conservatism a good thing? I don't think so, but then, I am a synths and avant-garde electronic music fanboy... :)

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am
by dj jedi
I know what you're saying and agree with you, although there are 'musically acomplished' happy hardcore tracks a lot of it is dancefloor music. But for those that have done it, there is literally nothing better than being 17/18 and dancing at 180bpm off your face to happy hardcore :) best crowd, best atmosphere, most uplifting music bar none. If you've ever read a DJ Sy interview, that's why he has stood by happy hardcore for long after it was cool. You can't beat the atmosphere.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:31 am
by Traffic Cone
dial1 wrote: I find E to be an emotionally vapid drug. Love it to bits but it's not serious or intelligent, cos it only ever has shown me what I want to see, which is really quite conservative and predictable. But psychedelics are messy and unpredictable, which is a bit like life.
do you need everything to be serious and intelligent to really appreciate it? i think this is the bit i don't get. surely music is about an emotional response? not an intellectual one? does that apply to everything in your life?

like i've already said, i totally get why happy hardcore could leave you cold. that's obvious! but i mean - i actually also love quite a bit of weird, strange music as well. but my enjoyment of that is still about how it makes me feel, not the challenge of understanding it.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:41 am
by dial1
Traffic Cone wrote:
dial1 wrote: I find E to be an emotionally vapid drug. Love it to bits but it's not serious or intelligent, cos it only ever has shown me what I want to see, which is really quite conservative and predictable. But psychedelics are messy and unpredictable, which is a bit like life.
do you need everything to be serious and intelligent to really appreciate it? i think this is the bit i don't get. surely music is about an emotional response? not an intellectual one? does that apply to everything in your life?

like i've already said, i totally get why happy hardcore could leave you cold. that's obvious! but i mean - i actually also love quite a bit of weird, strange music as well. but my enjoyment of that is still about how it makes me feel, not the challenge of understanding it.
Soz, typing whilst fag is in gob. I don't think any genre an be inherently intelligent with the exceptions of classical music, free/avant-jazz/fusion and non-western microtonal music.

That being said jungle/techno/whatever can evoke some very immersive imagery. Something HH can't do.

Visually and tactilely speaking HHC is very one-dimensional. And once you've gotten over the novelty of it all texturally speaking there's almost nothing there.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:54 am
by phil
one nation and fusion at Wembley in 96 was a good show of atmosphere, one nation arena was very very moody, there were muggings in and outside yet fusion arena was gurning and hands in the air although music was not what I was into, each to their own tho when it comes to happy hardcore, last tunes I brought from that era was 95 style and groove control which I still play. tunes like toy town and 'here I am' and hixxy version of spaceman were shockingly pony imo and killed the happy hardcore scene in London.

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:29 pm
by dj jedi
dial1 wrote:That being said jungle/techno/whatever can evoke some very immersive imagery. Something HH can't do.

Visually and tactilely speaking HHC is very one-dimensional. And once you've gotten over the novelty of it all texturally speaking there's almost nothing there.
I'm afraid that is just plain ignorance mate. Saying no happy hardcore has emotion or good composition etc is like saying all drum & bass is rubbish because of jump up tracks like Bad Ass. you can't write off an entire genre based on one small section of it. Is all old skool hardcore shit because of Rhubarb and Custard? Is all techno shit because of 2 Unlimited?

Re: How can you go to a happy hardcore rave without ending o

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:48 pm
by dj jedi
I should probably back up my claim that not all happy hardcore is Hey Jude rip offs, so here's a couple of examples from 1995:



This has as much musical merit to it as anything Photek made, you can't put together a piano score (not simply a riff) like this with zero talent.



The main breakdown in this is pretty 'emotional' IMO.

you may not like either of these tracks, but can hopefully appreciate they haven't been composed by mindless idiots.