Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Old Skool chat, tune discussions.
No tape packs or mix tape posts in the forum please!
User avatar
dj jedi
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 12:00 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by dj jedi » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:34 am

Like anything it's not really fair to compare generations technically - George Best wouldn't make a modern Premier League team, Chad Jackson's DMC routine is laughable compared to the likes of Q-Bert and Noise etc. Likewise many of the original DJs are not very good technically compared to much younger DJs. The phrase "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" has some truth in it, younger people pick things up much quicker so these DJs in their 40s and 50s are never going to catch up with the technical ability of DJs in their 20s.

I do kind of agree that the worst of the bunch should bow out gracefully though, as their mixing is embarrassing by today's standards.

User avatar
Traffic Cone
The Messiah of the 21st Century
The Messiah of the 21st Century
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 5:56 pm
Location: London

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Traffic Cone » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:18 am

in fairness though basic rave mixing isn't really a skill with that many levels to it. maybe the really early house DJs you could say that for, more because the music wasn't designed for it. but even by the early 90s there were definitely other DJs who could beatmatch pretty flawlessly. and plenty more who could at least not just trainwreck every mix. i think even by his contemporaries' standard SS was pretty shit in that regard.

that said it does also show how much of it comes down to the tunes you play, looking at the big picture! and I do like SS on that front. (pre-95 anyway!)

User avatar
Restless
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:53 pm

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Restless » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:32 pm

dj jedi wrote:Like anything it's not really fair to compare generations technically - George Best wouldn't make a modern Premier League team, Chad Jackson's DMC routine is laughable compared to the likes of Q-Bert and Noise etc. Likewise many of the original DJs are not very good technically compared to much younger DJs. The phrase "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" has some truth in it, younger people pick things up much quicker so these DJs in their 40s and 50s are never going to catch up with the technical ability of DJs in their 20s.

I do kind of agree that the worst of the bunch should bow out gracefully though, as their mixing is embarrassing by today's standards.
Ratty, Finn, Sy, Slipmatt and Carl Cox, Randall and Bukem were SUPER tight, technically skilled and improved over the years.

You couldn't find me a set nowadays that's Oldskool that stands up top any of their '91'-'93 mixes.

Age has NOTHING to do with it. You keep mixing and you SHOULD improve. How guys like Ellis Dee and Groove never baffles me. They must have played out 3-4000 times EASY. How can't you sound good after that much experience and being used to super loud rigs, bad equipment etc?

User avatar
dj_gyr8
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3701
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:45 pm
Location: southcoast

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by dj_gyr8 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:36 pm

Hi,

What if you knew promoters would book you regardless... For the more 'jungle' DJs BITD, it was more about what tracks you played, than the mixing - plus most of the crowd didn't care about mixing skills, just what cool tunes they could hear...

Getting the most upfront, and exclusive tracks, was much more important to these guys BITD, than mixing or scratching...

User avatar
Restless
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:53 pm

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Restless » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:39 pm

Missing the point... Which is, how can you NOT get better or sound DECENT with that amount of experience behind you? Baffles me.

User avatar
Traffic Cone
The Messiah of the 21st Century
The Messiah of the 21st Century
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 5:56 pm
Location: London

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Traffic Cone » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:57 am

Motivation i think is the point. If they still get a great response, there's no impetus for them to look at how to improve. You get better at a skill from practice, but if you're not trying to hone that skill you maybe won't change much. I think some DJs maybe just aren't bothered by a skill that is of importance only to a small part of the crowd in a lot of cases.

rage
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3037
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by rage » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:09 am

Mickey Finn was the train wreck master haha. Played decent music but I wouldn't rate him in the same league as those others.

I think you'll only get better with age up to a point, depends what you're doing. A 50 year olds fingers aren't going to be as nimble as a 20 year olds!

User avatar
Restless
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:53 pm

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Restless » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:13 am

Or they just aren't naturally good? Which is more likely the case.

You say this, but have you ever been in a club and a train wreck of a mix is going on? Even a pilled up mong starts booing it!

Bad mixing is a hell of a lot more noticeable than you think!

How was Finn (aimed at you rage) a train-wreck master? Peacefest '92 - awesome set. On point in every way!

Even in '95, years after being massively popular and possibly bored with playing out - he was still mixing awesomely in the Jungle scene!

rage
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3037
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by rage » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:19 am

Don't get me wrong I always liked him as a DJ and producer but a lot of the early sets I've got from him are all over the shop.

He was the first DJ I ever heard when I discovered Hardcore, always had respect for that.

User avatar
Restless
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:53 pm

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Restless » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:22 am

Ellis Dee is the same for me. Utter garbage.

I've heard 40+ sets of his and they've all been awful and borderline unbearable.

rage
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3037
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by rage » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:27 am

I always liked Ellis Dee. He was once again pretty terrible technically but played lots of great music. Soo slow at mixing though, would get through about 10 tracks in an hour. His set at Obsession 93 (The Dream I think) is really good.

User avatar
dj jedi
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 12:00 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by dj jedi » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:35 am

Yep top tune selection, but terrible mixing. I loved his sets before I knew how to DJ, once I learned I noticed how bad he was. But I have massive respect for him as he was the undisputed king from 92-94.

User avatar
Traffic Cone
The Messiah of the 21st Century
The Messiah of the 21st Century
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 5:56 pm
Location: London

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Traffic Cone » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:50 am

Restless wrote: You say this, but have you ever been in a club and a train wreck of a mix is going on? Even a pilled up mong starts booing it!
plenty of times...to be honest I've not really noticed a reaction like that before. maybe a few people wincing at it - but if the tunes are good i'd say it's more shrugged off. a really shit tune would get

I've heard a few spectacular clangs too - one that sticks in my mind was at a massive Dutch rave where the DJ tried to mix in a 150 bpm tune into a tune which started out at 150, but had a big breakdown then came back in 40 bpm faster. a really famous tune too, so he had no excuse. it was gloriously awful :badgrin: but it equally didn't seem to faze that many people!

i really think for most people it's not that awful. unless someone's clanging AND trying to keep a mix going for 2 minutes. most shit mixing is usually quite quick too - sometimes that can even sound good, from a raver's perspective. (Bass Generator being the first example that comes to mind)

personally i find it much harder to listen to DJs who can beatmatch perfectly but play clashing tunes over each other - far more jarring than a trainwreck. and yet there are plenty of DJs who are considered great who i've heard do that a few times.

User avatar
Restless
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:53 pm

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by Restless » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:07 pm

dj jedi wrote:Yep top tune selection, but terrible mixing. I loved his sets before I knew how to DJ, once I learned I noticed how bad he was. But I have massive respect for him as he was the undisputed king from 92-94.
:lol: :lol:

Same goes for TONS of DJ's from that era.

I don't think he was anywhere near being 'undisputed king'. Many better DJ's out there at that time.

I will agree on his taste in music, though. Great selector!

rage
Old Skool Don Daddy
Old Skool Don Daddy
Posts: 3037
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Oldskool DJ's that get overlooked, but...

Post by rage » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:12 pm

A lot of these DJs will be where most of us have heard tunes for the first time, so there'll always be a certain amount of attachment to them for that I guess even if they weren't in particularly good DJs.

Locked