Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

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Law
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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by Law » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:09 pm

There has been developments but before we put out an update we need to get all the info from MPO.
Of course we haven't done a runner. The Drumtrip hasn't been updated as normal recently simply because I have been too busy at work to focus on it - it has nothing to do with the vinyl release.

There will be an update on Drumtrip in the next day or so, and I'll post it in here too.

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by dj_gyr8 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:21 pm

Hi,

Doesn't sound good mate... MPO haven't 'lost' the master have they?

Even with the backlog, this seems far too long for you to wait, they owe you compensation, or a bigger run...

In all my years I've never known anyone to be messed around this long by Curved or MPO...

It has been 20 weeks since the pre-order sold-out. Surely if people had up-front releases, they'd no longer be 'fresh' after this length of time.

You may want to ask Curved/MPO whats going on, as 20 weeks is mental!

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by Law » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:58 pm

dj_gyr8 wrote:
You may want to ask Curved/MPO whats going on, as 20 weeks is mental!
Haha cheers mate, we hadnt thought of that!

An update for you all: http://drumtrip.co.uk/news/unreleased-h ... te-031014/
Unfortunately it's not good news. We'll keep you posted when we get more info.

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by dj_gyr8 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:26 pm

Hi,

That sucks, after such a wait, the vinyl is naff. You must be gutted, and so annoyed. They usually play vinyls before shipping to check press quality, especially the first part if each side...

Fingers crossed Curved can get them to do another run ASAP.

In the past I had this happen and the broker let us keep the 'failed' run, but I think a lot of plants like the vinyl returned now a days...

A friend had this happen many years ago, just before the plant went bust, so he ended up with 300 faulty vinyl, but no master or DAT...

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by leonized » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:36 pm

dj_gyr8 wrote:A friend had this happen many years ago, just before the plant went bust, so he ended up with 300 faulty vinyl, but no master or DAT...
Hi,

If you have a rip of any of the 300 faulty records I will happily clean them for you, removing any pops/clicks/crackle :)

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by way2oldskool » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:00 am

renegadegenius wrote:I'm sure there's been updates on FB.
It's just MPO is so overrun with limited vinyl pressings at the mo, instead of the usual 4 week turnaround, it's at least 8 weeks (from date of him paying for the press).
Problem being due to the lack of vinyl the last so many years, staff and equipment were got rid of, so now there's a rush on it again, they don't have the resources they once had - hence the massive delays.
^^THIS

Obviously it's a proper nightmare to say the least... but sadly not much we can do but wait on a repress now. It's not an issue with Curved, MPO are just overrun with work. as are all the plants at the moment. The ones that can still provide faster turnarounds are either not as good quality, or considerably more expensive, or refuse to do short runs on coloured wax.

For the benefit of those who are wondering why it's taken so long it's probably worth me running through the additional delays. Obviously there are always delays, and when we gave you all the initial time scale upon ordering I did add few weeks to hopefully allow for any delays that might crop up, but by the time the laqueurs had reached Curved the expected turnaround times at MPO had increased considerably from what we had expected, and by the time the TPs had arrived, had increased further still..

First off, once the orders were in, I had to prepare the masters and book a cut with Stu. The cut was done roughly 2 weeks after the orders were in, then add another few days for the laqueurs to be biked over to Curved, then from Curved another week for them to be shipped to MPO in France - and it's from there that the quoted turnaround time to TP begins - by which time the turnaround quoted had already increased by a few more weeks than I'd originally been told when I did my reserach into which plant to use prior to taking the pre-orders.

So, roughly 8 weeks into the whole process, and the TPs arrive.

Then there was around a week additional delay between approving the TPs due to the artwork not being quite ready. Due to unforseen family circumstances my mate couldn't get it done in time, eventually I ended up doing it myself at the 11th hour.. so add another week for that!

So around 9-10 weeks in and the art and TPs had been approved and the pressings paid for.

So now just over 9 weeks into the process when I approve the artwork Curved inform me the possible delay at MPO had increased even further, and it could be anything up to 6-8 weeks for the final run simply because they're just so damn busy (for all the reasons Renegade stated above). They've laid off staff and put equipment out of action during the lull of previous years and this year they really have been taken by surprise, there'd been no let up since Record Store Day and they were still flat out - the busiest they've been for years.

It's worth pointing out that Curved are MPO's biggest vinyl customer - that's coming from the horses mouth, Larry at MPO. So whilst it's true to say Curved have a helluva lot of weight at MPO to get short runs and can generally push jobs through quicker than if we were to go direct, they can still only push them so far, and right now MPO are flat out, and it's Curved that have played a big part in making them that way. They really are battling to keep up with the vinyl resurgence - and with so many of us wanting short run coloured vinyl, they're under even more pressure due to the lengthy setup process involved - they have to clean the press between each run, so prefer to keep most of the presses on black. Thus the reason coloured vinyl runs can be delayed even more (which is what delayed this release even further) - and I'd guess it's MPO rushing to get short runs like this out the door that causes pressing issues in the first place..

I'll tell you what tho guys, apart from the obvious "non-fill" issue in places, the coloured wax really does sound excellent, really clean, and apart from the faults in a few areas it really is a great sounding pressing, even the run in and run out grooves are dead silent - none of the hiss that you get with some low quailty coloured vinyl.

The non-fill crackle issue doesn't come in until the music starts, and goes on for several rotations at the start of each side and in various places at the very end of Sunburst where the grooves are quite tightly packed - it's in slightly different places on each copy, but always in roughly the same areas, so it's fairlt safe to say it's not a stamper fault which is at least one positive thing, meaning it shouldn't have to be re-plated or re-cut. Although the Sunburst side was also pressed a little off center - by about a mm, as it was on the TPs too. Curved knew about that and I was expecting MPO to have fixed the issue for the final run - but they hadn't, so I'll certainly be pushing them to get that right too with this repress. Off-center pressings bug the hell out of me, and are a fundamental basic to get right.. certainly not impressed with MPO for cocking that up!

Anyways, I'm proper gutted about the situation, I'd so love to be able to mail the vinyl out to you all, but if I did, some of you would probably get lucky and get a copy that's not too badly affected and not be too stressed, but at the same time plenty of you would end uo with sketchy ones and be proper pissed. To me, quality is essential, and there bo way I'd ever send out an inferior product - I know I wouldn't accept it, and I wouldnt expect any of you to either! Obviously I don't have time to play test them all before sending them out either, all I know is from picking a random record out of each box of 20, all of them have the pressing issue to some extent affecting either one or both sides.

So... once again, huge apologies to all you guys for the on going delays. We'll be keeping our fingers firmly corssed for the repress.. I can't give an exact timescale yet, but we'll update you again as soon as we know the score - and of course send out links to the bonus WAVs for you all at some point next week.

Tell you what though, I'm crazy busy with my regular job at the moment, barely got time to think as it is, and I know it's the same with Ricky, so this really was the last thing we needed - but rest assured we are on the case, it will get sorted and you WILL get your vinyl - eventually! The last thing we'd do is run off with your monies without delivering the goods!

Equally though, we'd not want you to end up with anything but a top notch pressing - no matter how long it takes for them to get it right, quality comes first.

So be sure to keep eye on your paypal email addy over the next week or so for a further update and the links to DL the bonus tracks - be sure to check your spam folders as we are aware they have a tendency to get caught up in over zealous spam filters - especially to hotmail.

Anyways, hopefully that's enough to bring you all up to date with current the state of play ;-)

So once again, thanks for your orders and your patience! - we can assure you, that no matter how long it takes, you will have a great sounding pressing in your hands eventually!

- of course, if any of you prefer a refund, then just drop me a line with your paypal email and transaction ID and consider it done. ;-)
G

<edit>This is a good read regarding the state of play at the pressing plants too: http://heavywax.com/blogs/waxing-lyrica ... s-comeback </edit>
Last edited by way2oldskool on Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by melakaraya » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:04 am

Nice one Graham -cheers for the comprehensive update :-)

Sounds like a proper nightmare! But the great thing to my mind is that you're absolutely committed to putting a top-notch product out, regardless of the delays and technical issues - that's the most important thing at the end of the day, and waiting a few more weeks for it will make it all the more worthwhile :-)

Big ups!

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by dj_gyr8 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:16 am

Hi,

Agreed, nice to see you guys doing the right thing. Sad that one of the best (MPO) is now one of the worse. Any other industry, the custmoer has a choice, and can take their business elsewhere.

Due to more people wanted vinyl, it means the pressing plants can lower quality, and still keep their customers. Shame.

Somebody needs to open a plant in the UK...

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by stuz74 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:24 am

Am also gutted to hear that the run is flawed, as it must be heartbreaking seeing all off those pristine copies and knowing that the vast majority could be duff. I still have faith in the fact that there will be flawless copies of this release once things are resolved, and will remain patient for them to arrive. In the end, you've done all the work that you can do from your end, it's the pressing plant at fault for not being as on the ball for quality control.

Best luck with getting it all sorted! :D

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by rage » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:29 am

dj_gyr8 wrote:Sad that one of the best (MPO) is now one of the worse.
Harsh! I have massive love for MPO, the longest surviving plant that were around well before any of us started mixing. I can't think of any records I have pressed by them that are dodgy, everyone's said they're run off their feet, it's unfortunate but mistakes can happen.


Hi Law, are there any copies of this left to order mate? :)

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by way2oldskool » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:55 pm

rage wrote:
dj_gyr8 wrote:Sad that one of the best (MPO) is now one of the worse.
Harsh! I have massive love for MPO, the longest surviving plant that were around well before any of us started mixing. I can't think of any records I have pressed by them that are dodgy, everyone's said they're run off their feet, it's unfortunate but mistakes can happen.
Agreed, that is a harsh statement, I certainly wouldn't want this thread to put anyone off either Curved or MPO.

Curved are a great bunch of guys, and overall MPO are still a great pressing plant too, I'd still trust them way above many others, the quality of both their regular black and coloured vinyl is still up there with the best, no worries there at all.

They're just rushed off their feet at the moment, overall I think you'll find these kind of problems are very rare at MPO, but like any plant that's pushed to the limit, they can happen occasionally.

Admittedly, the off-center thing is a bit of a wind up, that's a fundamental basic you would expect to be spot on, especially on short runs where you'd have thought the stamper wouldn't have enough time to slip, but when it comes to non-fill issues, there are so many parameters involved, take a look at this thread:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/l ... t-10257112

and this one too:
http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/v ... b#p1441641

To be fair, with Sunburst, I have set MPO a bit of a challenge, as I did with Stu having him cut it at 45!

Sunburst is just over 10mins long, but I was determined to have him cut it at 45 for audio quality. There are plenty of quiet parts, so I knew it had to be possible to do it, but it was always going to be a challenge to cut. Neverthelsee, he did an amazing job - and it really does make a huge difference to the sound and is still plenty loud enough, but at the same time, due to it's length and dynamics, especially the way it goes from loud to very soft for the last couple of minutes (at which point the grooves become very tightly packed) it would appear to be a prime candidate for stitching/non-fill issues. So, my guess is that it probably requires even more attention to detail to press to perfection than the average dance 12", more like a delicate classical record, and possibly even more care is required to press it on coloured wax where the temperatures and cooling times are likely even more crucial.

Now don't get me wrong, the coloured wax compound MPO use is excellent, else I'd have never opted for it, and overall I'm extremely impressed with the sound, the run in grooves are nice and quiet, none of the hiss you get from cheap coloured pressings - so apart from the places where the non-fill issues crop up on some copies, sound quality wise it's amazing - in fact somehow it seems to sound even better than the black TPs if that's at all possible.. - and looks great too.

Some of the coloured vinyl copies here do sound perfect in that tricky bit where the grooves are tightly packed tho, so I know it can be pressed on coloured wax just fine, but still, it's probably not the easiest record to press, and on coloured vinyl maybe even more of a challenge.

Thing is, when pressing with regular black vinyl, they can sometimes see non-fill issues as the records come off the press, but with coloured, due to the nature of it, they can't - so I'd guess they have to monitor temperatures more closely and play test at more regular intervals - thus likely another reason I guess a lot of plants consider coloured vinyl runs a PITA.

Also, the stampers need time to get to the right temperatures, and time to settle down. Plants used to discard the first part of a run to allow for this, often anything up to the first 100 or more copies before they'd be confident it would press consistently enough to complete a full run, but my guess is they can't always afford to do that now, especially with shorter runs (probably just another reason many of them don't like doing short runs either!)

Anyway, I should hear back from Curved on Monday. Assumming MPO agree to repress it, both me and Ricky would love to keep it on coloured wax, but bearing in mind the above, right now I am considering whether it might not be better to have them redo it on black just to make it easier to press. Obviously the last thing we need is for another run to come out with problems! - so I'll have a word to see what they think we should do for the best.

Fingers firmly crossed for a positive outcome!

Seriously though, don't let this thread put you off MPO, they're still one of the best - thus the reason they're so damn busy!

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by rage » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:25 pm

This non fill business is completely new to me, I hadn't heard of it before. Just reading up on it on that Steve Hoffman link you provided, it doesn't seem to be something that has been common in our music but I'll be checking my records for it now! 180 gram does nothing for me, I find it too heavy and cumbersome when cueing and for all the claims that it sounds better I dont believe for a second that it does. Also if the record is warped it is so solid there is no chance of it ever flattening out, whereas a 140 will have enough flex to it that after a bit of use can sort itself out completely.

Off-centre records drive me crazy too. 1mm doesn't seem to effect the sound much in my experience but any more and you can really start to hear it, especially towards the end of the record if there are strings and pianos involved. Its just annoying watching that needle drift from side to side and like you say such a basic thing to get wrong!

Most of the vinyl coming from MPO and also Record Industry in Holland is perfect, there is also a very good plant in Germany I believe. Sad that there are so few left to choose from in the UK, we had loads back in the 90s!

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by rage » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:16 pm

Wow. I have got a TP of Digital's forthcoming EP on Horizons here and either by strange coincidence or because I was listening out for it, there is a light crackle on the right channel for every revolution throughout the final third of the record. I looked at the record under a bright light and you can see a lot of dots within the grooves, doesnt look right at all.

Not sure where this was pressed, its definitely not MPO. I'm going to drop them a message to them aware in case it hasnt been noticed. Usually their records are perfect but it does seem these have been pressed somewhere different than usual.

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by BrianBadonde » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:37 am

I have a hideously off centre pressed copy of a DJ Rap tune... one of the first proper talent ones I think. Im sure it has a force 10 crystl designed logo on the rear...

anyway i HATE it! drives me mental!

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Re: Unreleased History Of The Invisible Man

Post by dj_gyr8 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:55 pm

Hi,

I wasn't saying MPO are bad, just sad to see them putting out a poor quality product.

I've had bad TPs that you'd think the plant (not MPO) would realise were bad, but never full runs from anywhere, as what you pay for is a quality finished product...

I know mistakes happen, but it is very easy to check a vinyl before sending a whole batch out...

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