First "Jungle" tune debate

[Ornette]

I still think it's a bit of a stretch to call We R IE jungle even though it was obviously influential. It's still under 140 bpm and is very much driven by a 4/4 beat.. and the sample is actually a muslim prayer, nothin to do with reggae.. but i might be clutching at straws here

If you going to exclude anything under 140bpm then that rules everything else in this thread out lol :D

As for being driven by a 4/4 beat, well so where a lot of jungle tunes, 'Deadly Ceremonies' by Dillinja for example.

There's not many jungle tunes with a 4/4... in fact, I can only think of a couple of others

Submania - Rock With Me (Remix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2I8EK80hVE
Conquering Lion - Inah Sound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWN0TFNoLpI


oh, and also "Thugged Out Bitch" by Dillinja, but that's drum & bass

[nebkins]

This is jungle techno for me

http://www.discogs.com/Metronome-Voyage ... ase/330481

Voyage To The Bottom Of The Bass (Original Mix)

[spackhandychoptubes]

jungle and dnb were, and are the same thing. They just started saying dnb because its more commercially viable name for a genre, and notice the term dnb was used right about the time major labels got interested and goldie and bukems albums came out. Now all teh new kiddies think there's a difference, but they are interchangeble names for the same thing.

And obviously We are ie was the proto jungle tune, as it had the sub bass, the ragga / dub influences, andmost importantly, it creates that classic jungle sound with the way the amen break is used.

[Traffic Cone]

surely though, even though they once were the same thing - if it's 15 years later and they're used to refer to different things, surely that's what they mean now? evolution of language. why would what the name meant in 1994 be exactly the same forever?

[eazyflow]

jungle and dnb were, and are the same thing. They just started saying dnb because its more commercially viable name for a genre, and notice the term dnb was used right about the time major labels got interested and goldie and bukems albums came out. Now all teh new kiddies think there's a difference, but they are interchangeble names for the same thing.

And obviously We are ie was the proto jungle tune, as it had the sub bass, the ragga / dub influences, andmost importantly, it creates that classic jungle sound with the way the amen break is used.

QFT my friend. QFT.

[deebom]

Ok. How about Bukems 'Demons Theme'. That's Jungle through and through to me.

[uncle dugs..]

just for the record i was speaking to lennie de ice about this the other day and he said to me he doesnt think we are ie was the first jungle tune and that he would never accept credit for that.. he mentioned shut up and dance, ibiza records, rebel mc and a few others in with his own tune as the starting point for jungle...

just thought id chuck that in...

personally i think we are ie has been given that title over the years and most people agree apart from the real anoraks.. you cant deny that rebel, paul ibiza and the suad guys were pushing the early ragga influenced hardcore sound which in turn became jungle.. i aint sure there is 1 tune that can be given the title of the first ever jungle record, i think it was more of a collective of records around the 90/91 era that created the genre...

[Cybotron]

If there is to be an authority on the subject then I think Uncle Dugs qualifies.

My take on the Jungle/DnB debate is that Jungle is a subgenre of DnB. It's complicated because the term Jungle came before DnB. Jungle is DnB but there are also many other forms of DnB.

Also there are examples of early Jungle that aren't DnB even if the producers themselves used the term:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9UIF7BFa4o

1991 and neither Jungle nor Techno to my mind.

Also this is Jungle Right?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFkvmZENCmQ

1994 but where are the Reggae/Ragga influences? Sounds more Hardcore and even Italo House flavoured to me? (wicked tune whatever).

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this as my main raving days were 90-95 (with plenty of relapses since). Even signed up just to post in this facinating thread. Everytime I think about the origins of Jungle/DnB I keep comming back to 'King of the Beats':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_BxXeqvzvE

[Ornette]

just for the record i was speaking to lennie de ice about this the other day and he said to me he doesnt think we are ie was the first jungle tune and that he would never accept credit for that.. he mentioned shut up and dance, ibiza records, rebel mc and a few others in with his own tune as the starting point for jungle...

Personally I'd plump on the side of We Are IE not being a jungle tune. But I can see the arguments for why some people would suggest it was. :D

I think Ian Saunders is right when he says about "Jungle only came about when the word 'Jungle' was used to describe it".

What were the first tunes to be heard that were associated with the term jungle?

If we're going to talk about that classic jungle sound that most people would associate as being jungle, then Will's suggestion of 28 Gun Bad Boy is surely the one. I remember Kool FM rinsing it in spring/summer of 93 and being one of the best anthems you could hear back then, and wondering why I could never track it down. The fact that it was a year and a half old by then might have had something to do with it!



nb. the XPR1684 release of this was from Sept 1991


Anyhow... how comes noone's mentioned Future Sound Of London - Papua New Guinea? :D

[Ornette]

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this as my main raving days were 90-95 (with plenty of relapses since). Even signed up just to post in this facinating thread. Everytime I think about the origins of Jungle/DnB I keep comming back to 'King of the Beats':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_BxXeqvzvE

Oh, and welcome by the way



:)

[Beagle]

jungle and dnb were, and are the same thing.

No, no these days they're not. Two sides of the same coin perhaps, but definitely two quite different styles of music.

[Ornette]

As for being driven by a 4/4 beat, well so where a lot of jungle tunes, 'Deadly Ceremonies' by Dillinja for example.

Just thought of another 8)

Fusion - Judgement Day
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Who-Are- ... ter/186576

[ian saunders]

I think Ian Saunders is right

I think i am going to get this framed for posterity.

All i will say is that other than the odd title of a tune i didn't start hearing the word "jungle" as a subgenre/genre until late 92ish. Retroactively going further back in time just distorts, otherwise we'll be claiming that The Winston's - "Amen Brother" was the first jungle tune.