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First "Jungle" tune debate

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First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby 23eHeure » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:00 pm

phil wrote:radio babylon


Certainly a candidate. Good call.

Does it have enough "roll" and is the tempo sufficient to make it the best candidate though...?
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Re: First

Postby ian saunders » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:40 pm

23eHeure wrote:
phil wrote:radio babylon


Certainly a candidate. Good call.

Does it have enough "roll" and is the tempo sufficient to make it the best candidate though...?


I dunno, i think the first "jungle" tune should be when the term was first applied to a tune, IE 1992 or 93. You get DnB DJ's and fans calling tunes like Far Our "jungle", purely because Hardcore is a dirty word.

If people start saying that Radio Babylon is jungle, then i'm sure someone can dig up a freestyle tune from 87-88 that just has a bassline and a breakbeat.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby MikeW » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:48 pm

If Radio Babylon is jungle, so is this (1989):



That good enough for you Mr Saunders ;)
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First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby 23eHeure » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:54 pm

Well I haven't got to my lock up yet to pull my decks and all my crates of records.
But I HAVE found a box of tapes of london pirate shows up in the attic.

Listened to two Kool FM sets from late 92, and I'm surprised to say about 75% of the tunes would definitely be classed as jungle.
I say surprised, cos my memory told me even Kool was mostly hardcore until 93.

So anyway, my point is jungle was already established as a sound of it's own in London in 92, but it was 93 when it really got rolling and entered the general lexicon.

Doesn't answer the OP's question of course, but sat here listening to Kool from the night of Dec 4th 1992 ain't half making this boy grin!
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby spackhandychoptubes » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:52 pm

It's Lenny de ice we are i e - it's not scientifically proven, but it is a fact.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby eazyflow » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:18 am

spackhandychoptubes wrote:It's Lenny de ice we are i e - it's not scientifically proven, but it is a fact.


lol, this! Anyone that tries to argue otherwise is really grasping at straws :D

The ragga sample, the amen beats, the bassline, the gunshots - it has all the ingredients that came to be associated with jungle music 2 years later. All the other tracks mentioned by people in this thread have more in common with other genres than they do jungle.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby Thumpson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:27 pm

eazyflow wrote:The ragga sample, the amen beats, the bassline, the gunshots - it has all the ingredients that came to be associated with jungle music 2 years later. All the other tracks mentioned by people in this thread have more in common with other genres than they do jungle.

Except the one i posted ;) it's a (mid?)92 tune though..

I still think it's a bit of a stretch to call We R IE jungle even though it was obviously influential. It's still under 140 bpm and is very much driven by a 4/4 beat.. and the sample is actually a muslim prayer, nothin to do with reggae.. but i might be clutching at straws here ;)
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby eazyflow » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:43 pm

Thumpson wrote:
eazyflow wrote:The ragga sample, the amen beats, the bassline, the gunshots - it has all the ingredients that came to be associated with jungle music 2 years later. All the other tracks mentioned by people in this thread have more in common with other genres than they do jungle.

Except the one i posted ;) it's a (mid?)92 tune though..

I still think it's a bit of a stretch to call We R IE jungle even though it was obviously influential. It's still under 140 bpm and is very much driven by a 4/4 beat.. and the sample is actually a muslim prayer, nothin to do with reggae.. but i might be clutching at straws here ;)


If you going to exclude anything under 140bpm then that rules everything else in this thread out lol :D

As for being driven by a 4/4 beat, well so where a lot of jungle tunes, 'Deadly Ceremonies' by Dillinja for example.

You have to draw a line somewhere, otherwise people are going to end up arguing that 'Amen Brother' by the Winston's was actually the first jungle record. For me, a record has to have enough of the ingredients that became synonymous with jungle to be able to class it as such. And for me, 'We IE' is the earliest tune to tick all the boxes.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby ian saunders » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:03 pm

I think that Jungle (as in music) only came about when the word "Jungle" was used to describe it. It's when the term came in is what's important, not the actual music. Everything before the term "jungle" can be classed as an influence, rather than being that music.

So what was the first record that was described as being "jungle"?

If people in 1990-91 heard We R IE and said "that's a jungle tune" then it's jungle. Depends what they called it at the time.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby Thumpson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:08 pm

eazyflow wrote:You have to draw a line somewhere, otherwise people are going to end up arguing that 'Amen Brother' by the Winston's was actually the first jungle record. For me, a record has to have enough of the ingredients that became synonymous with jungle to be able to class it as such.


Exactly what i was saying.. :)

And for me, 'We IE' is the earliest tune to tick all the boxes.


This ticks all the same boxes for me (and actually has much more of an reggae influence) and is from 1990:



Jungle? Or just a precursor? Call it what you like ;)
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby Beagle » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:11 pm

ian saunders wrote:I think that Jungle (as in music) only came about when the word "Jungle" was used to describe it. It's when the term came in is what's important, not the actual music. Everything before the term "jungle" can be classed as an influence, rather than being that music.

So what was the first record that was described as being "jungle"?

If people in 1990-91 heard We R IE and said "that's a jungle tune" then it's jungle. Depends what they called it at the time.



correct answer. End of thread.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby deebom » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:17 am

How about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgBcUIgTbE

All of the E label tunes were early jungle too.

Or possibly this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOVEtZbf2I

Or even this? It was floating around on white label in 91.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v84mJACU ... re=related
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby mulder » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:00 pm

4/4 kicks, stabs, choppage, ragga, none of these make a blind bit of difference. It's all about a) using breaks and b) having heavy bass. That's all there is to it. Jungle and DnB are in fact no different, they are one in the same. I'd say that up until 1994/5 Hardcore and Jungle were not that different. In 1992, some people were calling hardcore 'drum and bass'
Last edited by mulder on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First "Jungle" tune debate

Postby mulder » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:06 pm

Thumpson wrote:the sample is actually a muslim prayer, nothin to do with reggae..


For a muslim prayer, it has found itself in some odd places. I heard the original record (not the Bomb The Bass tune, the original that was sampled by BTB) in an arabic porn vid on Red Tube :D
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Re: First

Postby mulder » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:09 pm

23eHeure wrote:Well I haven't got to my lock up yet to pull my decks and all my crates of records.
But I HAVE found a box of tapes of london pirate shows up in the attic.

Listened to two Kool FM sets from late 92, and I'm surprised to say about 75% of the tunes would definitely be classed as jungle.
I say surprised, cos my memory told me even Kool was mostly hardcore until 93.

So anyway, my point is jungle was already established as a sound of it's own in London in 92, but it was 93 when it really got rolling and entered the general lexicon.

Doesn't answer the OP's question of course, but sat here listening to Kool from the night of Dec 4th 1992 ain't half making this boy grin!


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