The evolution of DnB

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The evolution of DnB

Post by si 2 bad » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:54 pm

Would be pretty interesting to hear your views. I personally think that modern day drum and bass has completely evolved from the early rave scene - would we have what we have today, if we did not have that scene all of those years back? I think not.
Would genres like dubstep, grime etc ever have happened?

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by Restless » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:53 pm

Yes and No.

There is the 'If it wasn't for Acid House there wouldn't be any Dance Music at all...' argument, and then there is the 'It would've found it's way here/been made anyway'.

I'm in agreement with the former. Mainly because it happened, and secondly because modern music nowadays takes such a massive influence from back then that my point is proven - the best ideas were done back in the 90's.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by dj jedi » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:59 pm

Personally I think it's just a generation thing. I know plenty of people in their early 30s that swear 98-2002 D&B was the best ever era for music. They completely missed the era most of us refer to as the 'golden age' (91-96) so just don't appreciate it. That's not to say you can't appreciate good music from before your time, I like The Beatles despite being born 10 years after they split up, but the link is mostly nostalgic for most people.

I'm sure there are 22 year olds out there now talking about their 'old school' Chase & Status album and how things were much better 'in their day' :lol:

I think we often forget that our golden era only lasted four or five years - it's no different from people talking fondly about music from 2009-2004 as if it was a golden era, even though to me that period means nothing.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by Restless » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:17 pm

^

Disagree massively there.

No matter how much anyone will say 'Oh, *insert year/era here* (which was after the 90's) say's that 2004-2009 was the golden age', they will still say that the best stuff was done in the 90's - it's a common fact, IMHO.

98-02 D&B was awesome. It might just be the best era of that sound. Look at D&B now with a non-biased opinion... It doesn't compare to back then.

I think people forget just how awful 'dance music' became after the 90's. it was on it's arse in 2002-2008.

It's healthy again worldwide- and in this country - but boy did it suffer for a long time in the 00's.

You cannot compare the 5 years of say '88-'93 to 2004-2009 (I know you used it as an example, as am I..) due to the fact that 99.9% of people idea of a night out was going to the local Sharon & Tracy club in a suit and getting tanked up, then having a kebab and a fight. Then look at what Acid House did...

Ask most people and they would say how they would have loved to have been apart of the rave scene back then.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by Fizza » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:02 pm

There's a few different parts to that, mainly from the producer viewpoint, and the audience viewpoint, I think where you may see differing views, this will play a factor. From a production standpoint, there is no doubt in my mind that DnB evolved from rave/hardcore, but then I would then say that hardcore evolved from hip hop/electro;







If people were making DnB in those times, I think the above would be good approximations.

Also, if you listen to this;



At it's most fundamental, it's almost a direct correlation between this and a 90s rave - a DJ playing beats and an MC keeping things bubbling for the crowd who want to dance. And with hip hop coming to the UK post this era, my personal view is the rave scene, particularly the hardcore/jungle/dnb side of it allowed us in the UK to experience the roots of hip hop culture (and also by extension the dancehall culture which inspired hip hop itself) in our own context, and DnB was/is the result of that process.
Last edited by Fizza on Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by Traffic Cone » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:18 pm

no music is objectively better, that's just silly. there are some musical opinions which are given status within a scene or to a group of people for a variety of reasons, but that's not the same as objective fact. there are objective things you can say about music of course, but whether those things are "good" or "bad" is still opinion (whether it's personal opinion, or received wisdom). and so is influenced by memories, what age you heard it first, etc etc (as jedi says).

what i think you can say about the 90s is that most of the innovation happened then. but it's mostly as a result of the circumstances - there was new technology becoming affordable to allow people to make music they couldn't do before, a scene of people who wanted to hear it, and loads of new ground to cover.

whereas now, so much has been done that innovation is much more subtle - new combinations of existing elements, improvements in production quality, etc. and also, all the weird ideas from the 90s that most people didn't really like have been dropped also, so things are more streamlined.

so i think that's one reason why the 90s would be better for a lot of people (but i wouldn't ay it's a hard & fast rule)

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by AtomSmasher » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:44 pm

^^ I Agree: I think most of us were lucky to witness the origins of a wide spectrum of different sorts of 'dance music' and that's possibly the difference.
Music is arguably at its best (or a least the most exciting) right at the 'beginning'.
Acid House, Hardcore, Jungle, DnB - most of use were there or thereabouts during their genesis. The dance music around today is just a derivative of these.....
I suppose you could argue that Dub Step was the last innovation - or maybe it wasn't. Maybe there's something else around these days. I'm not down with the kids, so i wouldn't know.....!

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by oz » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:13 pm

I think that there was two great eras of drum and bass. First 93-96 and 98 to early millennium.
After that it just got far too formulaic and predictable for me, this is when I started going back to the oldskool stuff again.
On one hand you had the harder stuff like dillinja and then the liquid type stuff from danny byrd etc.
From listening to the occasional tune on the radio it's not progressed at all since then IMHO. Tracks like workout from andy c is pretty much identical to dillinja tunes or ramrecords eps from early 2000.
Producers just wouldn't think about trying something totally different now, I remember when game changing tunes came out every few months. I can't remember the last time I got excited about drum and bass but I don't really dig deep enough to find out to be honest. I still find myself amazed at tunes from 93/94 that I didn't really appreciate at the time.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by damo bee » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:48 am

Fizza & Traffic cone coming up with the goods for me there, i'll post my vies when i have more time. D

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by dreamweave » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:43 am

It is truly amazing how DnB is now just part of normal ever day life, hearing it in BBC adverts and game shows on a regular basis, being played on commercial radio and in the top 10 charts. Would the likes of Hype & Grooverider etc have thought back in the early days that the music the papers and press though so bad and evil is now part of our audio unconsciousness on a global scale, would they have ever thought that it could have got so big?Also can you imagine if had been the other way around and it was Happy Hardcore being the more popular genre today! Personally I lost touch with DnB around 2002 is when Andy C brought out Bodyrock, I simply hated the direction it was going, discovered Breakcore and the rest is history.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by Traffic Cone » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:02 pm

AtomSmasher wrote: I suppose you could argue that Dub Step was the last innovation - or maybe it wasn't. Maybe there's something else around these days. I'm not down with the kids, so i wouldn't know.....!
the last proper big one, definitely - in that it was something that spawned lots of its own subgenres and crossovers and so on.

the most "recent" one is footwork i'd say. although i'm hardly on the pulse of fresh new music :-D that's something that's been around for years in the midwest US, it's just only recently come to the attention of music nerds / hipsters etc from Planet Mu and the like getting involved a couple of years back. but it does seem to be the popular thing lots of people are trying and mixing into other stuff.

and that's crossed over into d&b / jungle too now. eg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C3W6uzUcA8

not entirely convinced myself but it is interesting. but i think that's the other thing - the "game changing" tunes pushing the boundaries now are far more likely to be tunes with niche appeal. the overall popular sound of most genres is pretty much set - there are people doing new things (especially in jungle / d&b), they're just more likely now to be on the fringes than 20 years ago. (i guess cos there's only so many new ideas you can try that are accessible).

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by MikeW » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:36 pm

Even footwork is really just an evolution of what was coming out on Dance Mania in the 90s...

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by AtomSmasher » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:51 pm

Christ- I think I'll pass on that.
The dancing's good....the music most definitely isn't.
It sounds like someone's leaning on the sampler.......

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by Traffic Cone » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:22 pm

MikeW wrote:Even footwork is really just an evolution of what was coming out on Dance Mania in the 90s...
oh true. that's what i mean by "recent" - as in, has actually been around for much longer but has only recently been noticed by people outside of its local scene.

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Re: The evolution of DnB

Post by lentrix » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:13 pm

To me that's not 'NEW' but a remix of an older tune. I kept waiting for the beats to drop !

Back to subject matter:

IMHO - everything stemmed from House, but D'n'B as we know it evolved from Jungle towards the end of 95 and defo by 96. The ragga based sounds died away and the beats evolved in hard/tech step. The sound became a lot 'professional' and some of the fun went out of the music. Henece the move of a lot of people into Garage (and how that evolved).

Production quality massively improved and albums from Goldie/Roni Size helped to take D'n'B global.

I kept up to date with the sound till about 2002 - Artists like John B, Ed Rush, Andy C were producing some quality tunes.

I agree that it did go stale from around 2003/4 till 2009 - I got into the liquid D'n'B sound (another evolution!) ie Hospital Records style and away from the heavier sounds.

Nowdays D'n'B is really big again - as already mentioned - on tv adverts etc etc.
What has also helped is 'groups' like Rudemental etc used a soft D'n'B sound. This has helped to push up interest. For instance my Bro was at a recent Roni size event playing new D'n'B and the place was rammed with a very mixed crowd.
Events like Ram / Fabric nights are also packed -

All in all this is a good thing - who would have thought that when you heard your 1st rave/house tune, it would evolve into a thiving music scene (in whatever format) more than 20+ years later............

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