** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by champion puffa » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:26 am

ian saunders wrote:
This is going to sound a bit harsh...a lot of these artists need to check their egos in.

Some of them have been inactive for quite a long time in the scene and their tunes would have largely been forgotten about were it not for places like this, YT uploaders and small internet radio stations. We've made sure that their tunes (not perhaps their biggest hit/s, but their lesser selling tunes) alive for 15 years, we've kept a market going for their tunes..now they suddenly decide that they don't need that.

Monk got 100k views on YT over the 15-18 years he's been away from the scene. How many compilations have his tunes been on over the last 10 or so years? Not many. Would their still be a market for his unreleased tunes were it not for YT, here and internet radio????? Maybe a couple of old skool compilation appearances a year..
THAT!!!!!

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by renegadegenius » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:26 am

All attempts to explain this to them has fallen on deaf (and greedy) ears.
All comments left on their FB page have been deleted as well.

They have no interest in listening, but it will backfire & all the artists which have paid out to be part of this & signed away their tunes are going to be the ones that suffer in the end.
I bet the blame will be aimed at us rather than HJ as well.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by RonWellsJS » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:50 am

ian saunders wrote: This is going to sound a bit harsh...a lot of these artists need to check their egos in.

Some of them have been inactive for quite a long time in the scene and their tunes would have largely been forgotten about were it not for places like this, YT uploaders and small internet radio stations. We've made sure that their tunes (not perhaps their biggest hit/s, but their lesser selling tunes) alive for 15 years, we've kept a market going for their tunes..now they suddenly decide that they don't need that.

Monk got 100k views on YT over the 15-18 years he's been away from the scene. How many compilations have his tunes been on over the last 10 or so years? Not many. Would their still be a market for his unreleased tunes were it not for YT, here and internet radio????? Maybe a couple of old skool compilation appearances a year..
I agree with this philosophy which is why I always express my gratitude to you guys, and the YT guys too. The scene was all but lost and you guys played a key role in resurrecting it.

Thanks again.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by what evil lurks » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:00 am

A short example of how Youtube is helping the scene;

After reading Neil Trix's new post, I checked what I have on his label and I just realized a record (apparently it's rare) called Dependance EP which I had never heard of before (and I've been collectiong for more than 15 years now).

I clicked on that release and there's a youtube link with all the 3 tracks...if I like them, I'll buy the vinyl if the price is right but if it's too high I MIGHT get a cheap copy online...but is this tyrant blocks this option I'd not venture to order this record without youtubing it.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by Law » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:10 pm

Wow this turned into quite a thread, and if shows you anything, its how dedicated and how personal a small scene this is.

Much has already been said, some I agree with and some not.
Hardcore Junglism sounds like a really promising site, and I am still looking forward to it. But as many have pointed out, it would have been best to work with the big youtube channels that have help keep these tunes alive, not alienate them. This was always gonna happen when people are threatened.

One thing I do really disagree with however, is the notion of leaking these tunes and actively encouraging the sharing of them to spite Hardcore Junglism. You are not just hurting HJ if you do that are you?
The artists are getting paid, and I have no idea but I am sure they are getting paid a lot more than if they are selling their MP3s via Beatport, Amazon or any of the other big digital retailers.

I really appreciate the work that this community (and others) has put into the oldskool scene. The youtube channels, the blogs, the ravers etc - But you don't own the copyrights.
By all means talk shit about HJ and boycott it, but going out your way to steal and share tunes from the artists we all love is not the way to go and it just furthers this fucking shit practice that labels have of trying to remove all trace of their tunes online (impossible!).

I hope it all works out as it will be a big shame if it turns into a disaster, as it could have been great.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by maxxvinyl » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:35 pm

apparently he over slept or sommat, sites still nut up, had my paypal up and loaded ;)

with a name like hardcorejunglism, does that mean anything pre 92 would be safe?

Would he also deem flyers which i sell on eBay, with his artists name be prone to deletion?

and yes i am that guy that download tracks from you utube for my personal edutainment,
but i'm never gonna play it out, cos i have dex :)



The first comment sums it up really
Andy Webb 11 months ago

There were so many tunz back then & I never knew the names of a lot of them. So I struggled to get the ones I really liked. Only now because of YouTube & the net & nice people from the same era I'm seeing& hearing those tunz. They were so hard to get in 1990 unless you worked in the indie record shops like Warp or eastern bloc. Proper top days tho then man! :-)
What ever happened to Mustafa Ali?

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by dest » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:52 pm

Its up now, and crashed already lol

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by dj jedi » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:56 pm

dest wrote:Its up now, and crashed already lol
Sorry but from a developers point of view it's an absolute dogshit website. It takes ages to load because it makes an insane amount of HTTP requests pulling in a load of crap it doesn't even need due to the Bootstrap framework it uses (over 70 requests per page, 19 of which are stylesheets!) and no offence but the design/logo is piss-poor too. Should really have done it properly.

Also what use is an MP3 website where you can't browse by artist/label/year etc? This website clearly hasn't been thought through properly.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by electric tribe » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:06 pm

dj jedi wrote:
dest wrote:Its up now, and crashed already lol
Sorry but from a developers point of view it's an absolute dogshit website. It takes ages to load because it makes an insane amount of HTTP requests pulling in a load of crap it doesn't even need due to the Bootstrap framework it uses (over 50 requests per page, 19 of which are stylesheets!) and no offence but the design/logo is piss-poor too. Should really have done it properly.

Also what use is an MP3 website where you can't browse by artist/label/year etc? This website clearly hasn't been thought through properly.
Yep, is painfully slow and browsing by Label would be useful. Can't really be bothered to go through track by track given how long load times are.

From looking at the content doesn't look like it should overly affect too many YT vids. Seems, admittedly not looked at all content, to only affect a couple of camps of labels and a small pool of artists. Think likely will be smoke over water and fizzle out relatively quickly when sales aren't as high as they think they will be.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by djdeeenbee » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:13 pm

What a shame. From someone who is 19 now but got in to this music nearly 8 years ago through the Oldskool community and over the years the YouTube channels, this is a big mistake.

Just the other day a friend of mine at Uni mentioned that he was schooled in early Hardcore etc through Mickeybeam's channels, in a day and age where a lot of guys my age have no idea what Oldskool Hardcore even is.

Having these channels are the only way that this music can reach new audiences, Hardcore Junglism is just a way for the audience that is already there and dedicated to buy the music. No one outside of this scene will have heard of the Hardcore Junglism website so how is it going to attract many sales without the promotion of the YouTube channels?

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by Ornette » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:09 pm

ian saunders wrote:This is going to sound a bit harsh...a lot of these artists need to check their egos in.

Some of them have been inactive for quite a long time in the scene and their tunes would have largely been forgotten about were it not for places like this, YT uploaders and small internet radio stations. We've made sure that their tunes (not perhaps their biggest hit/s, but their lesser selling tunes) alive for 15 years, we've kept a market going for their tunes..now they suddenly decide that they don't need that.
My point exactly, when I said that these tunes had been abandoned by the djs & artists!

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by djraindancerob » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:56 pm

renegadegenius wrote:Ok - after a few google searches on 'youtube earnings' - looks like you earn from ads and channel views (so if people browsing 1 channel clicking on links, that's how you earn rather than individual searches) - although, based on what I've found (no idea how true it is) - for a 1000 views, you might be getting a few quid. Times that by say a few hundred videos, you might be looking at a grand or a touch more.

So for less than an average months salary, you could p1ss 100s of possible customers off - not the best business decision ....

Such a shame as you've put a lot of work & effort into this.
Whose-ever idea this was, I'd have a word as it will not do your site any favours.
Youtube's listed earnings for channels are highly exaggerated. i ran a Youtube channel that someone saw fit to get shut down even when they didnt own the copyright to any of the tunes i had uploaded. i uploaded over 2500 videos all of which had large amounts of views & i only made under a fiver over a year, which i didnt end up getting as they have a minimum amount that you can claim & it get shut down before i reached the required amount. regardless you have to setup each video in order to show adds (unless its automatically flagged for copyright & then you cant earn from it anyways), which i did but still i only earned less then a fiver. plus how many people actually do that ? not many so its kind of irrelevant anyways imo

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by rage » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Law wrote:Wow this turned into quite a thread, and if shows you anything, its how dedicated and how personal a small scene this is.

Much has already been said, some I agree with and some not.
Hardcore Junglism sounds like a really promising site, and I am still looking forward to it. But as many have pointed out, it would have been best to work with the big youtube channels that have help keep these tunes alive, not alienate them. This was always gonna happen when people are threatened.

One thing I do really disagree with however, is the notion of leaking these tunes and actively encouraging the sharing of them to spite Hardcore Junglism. You are not just hurting HJ if you do that are you?
The artists are getting paid, and I have no idea but I am sure they are getting paid a lot more than if they are selling their MP3s via Beatport, Amazon or any of the other big digital retailers.

I really appreciate the work that this community (and others) has put into the oldskool scene. The youtube channels, the blogs, the ravers etc - But you don't own the copyrights.
By all means talk shit about HJ and boycott it, but going out your way to steal and share tunes from the artists we all love is not the way to go and it just furthers this fcuking shit practice that labels have of trying to remove all trace of their tunes online (impossible!).

I hope it all works out as it will be a big shame if it turns into a disaster, as it could have been great.
Well said Law, a voice of reason! Pretty shocked by all the hate in here.

I appreciate the YouTube vids as much as anyone else but if this site has signed agreements to be the exclusive distributor of these tracks as they claim they are perfectly within their rights to protect their and their artists interests. These arguments that it is sample based music doesn't really cut it, they are still individual pieces of music. I'd rather all these videos were allowed to stay online but it isn't the world we live in nowadays and they were always living off borrowed time, the bottom line is that much as I would rather there not be a monopoly on hosting tracks the artists themselves want HardcoreJunglism to distribute their music so they can earn some money from their work and personally I find it hard to argue with that.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by renegadegenius » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:17 pm

rage wrote:
I appreciate the YouTube vids as much as anyone else but if this site has signed agreements to be the exclusive distributor of these tracks as they claim they are perfectly within their rights to protect their and their artists interests. These arguments that it is sample based music doesn't really cut it, they are still individual pieces of music. I'd rather all these videos were allowed to stay online but it isn't the world we live in nowadays and they were always living off borrowed time, the bottom line is that much as I would rather there not be a monopoly on hosting tracks the artists themselves want HardcoreJunglism to distribute their music so they can earn some money from their work and personally I find it hard to argue with that.
The issue isn't with the artists earning money from an 'Exclusive' store - it's the youtube thing. Potentially destroying 10-15 years of building up, what is basically a library of online old skool (20-25 year old) tunes for people to listen to, ID & then go and find.

They aren't going to earn anything off having exclusive youtube content.
All they are doing is p1ssing off the very people they were hoping to sell to.

It's about doing the right thing, which they (HJ) don't seem to have any interest in.

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Re: ** Youtube Channel Owners Important **

Post by dest » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:25 pm

I might just shut my whole channel, he won't gain a thing from it then.
No links, no extra traffic. Just his lonely site designed by Fisher Price with some half arsed unreleased tunes and a load of fairly mainstream releases that every man and their dog have already got.
Remember, these old tunes weren't released back then for a reason, usually because they didn't deserve it.
Just because they're old it doesn't mean they're good.
Also, old unreleased tunes from years ago are a finite source not and endless DAT.

I've offered to work with him as have others yet he seems to want ignore all of us tune collectors. Strange tactic for someone trying to sell tunes!

Sorry Mike but the hardcore scene is a LOT bigger than you and your site, and always will be.
I'm out.

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