33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

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DJ-DR34DNOUGHT
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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by DJ-DR34DNOUGHT » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:55 am

Beagle wrote:
DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote:lot of tunes in that year come in the range of 78 to 83 smells like the roach is burnings is ridiculously fast i used bpm checker not my usual prog as i couldnt load mp3 to scan but its usually very close
the doctor and tik tak - roach is burning remix runs at 89.2 x2 ;)
Never heard of that - but 180 BPM? For a hardcore tune in 92? That's ridiculous.

Just done a quick test over a few 92 tunes using a handy 'bpm counter' widget. They all fell between 142-155 BPM.
couldnt give a monkeys thats a fact i mix with these thru a ap if the bpm was wrong theyd clash like a mofo. i just posted what it is fact
ps 2 x 89.2 doesnt = 180
DJ. Deckjammer* - The Deckjammer E.P. check that for track speeds you seem to be under the illusion theres was a set speed for producing hardcore its down to the artist

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by J3D » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:18 am

bpm counters have never worked properly
with breakbeat hardcore

you can even edit the search rate to 120 - 170 bpm
and they will still show up wrong 70% of the time
this is due to Breakbeats been chopped up layered and extra percussion
added on top causing the BPM detectors to show false results.

i know there was a few records out in 92 that where 170 + bpm
Noise factory ect... on ibiza records but they sounded like they
had been made at that tempo and didn't sound out of sync with the beat
aka phasing / digital stretch marks.

where as this record seems to show all them scars

i think the record needs to be uploaded at 33rpm 0% pitch to
actually see the difference between the 2 instead of peeps just bickering all day / night long lol !

would be a hell of a lot easier !!!!

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by AlexWise » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:40 am

This isn't equated down to a perfect 33, but I have pitched it down to the speed I think it should be.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1L3C6FD5

To my ears that sounds about right for it, especialy right at the end when you hear the ragga vocal.

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by Ornette » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:23 pm

:-k

I'm personally thinking now that the tune probably WAS produced at a slower speed, not 33rpm, but yes at a slower speed

And then pitched up for the pressing, perhaps as reflection of increasing tempo in sound

As Dr34dnought said, it would probably sound far more way out at 33rpm than it does now! Although that DJ Deckjammer tune was 1993 june time and tunes were a lot faster by that point so not fair to compare to a 92 tune!

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by DJ-DR34DNOUGHT » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:45 pm

had a white of deckjammer before nye 1993 but now u mention it i think it was the other ep
it sounds like the producers recorded all the samples at the same time and at same pitch the tunes pace doesnt sound far off but the pitch of the individual samples adds to it
jed no ones bickering except you weve just stated what it says on proverbial tin your the 1 denying it. i get 5 in 100 that bpm wrong and usually because they have a beatless intro and drop 4 bars before the main drop or have used weird encoders other than that its usually spot on as i can manually bpm the old way nodding my head and tapping my finger and get same results
ive tested on my own tracks ive made knowing what bpm i made them at and its pretty much bang on everytime.if you can nod your head in rhythm dont see why a pc cant

if ive got my maths right it would be 60.680000000000000000000000000016 bpm at 33/3rd dont need another encode to know thats 88 house

sounds like it was created while the guy was billyd up a lot of artists make 1 record and u never hear from them again in this genrer is posible he wasnt as up on tempos as your main producers
amen andrews done a few jungle eps as example not his usual style there all great but all to fast with a few exceptions. it happens
if it was recorded on a beltdrive this discussions pointless :)
Last edited by DJ-DR34DNOUGHT on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by ROBIEE » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:03 pm

mix race-too bad for ya springs to mind- fast '92

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by J3D » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:51 pm

DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote: jed no ones bickering except you weve just stated what it says on proverbial tin your the 1 denying it. i get 5 in 100 that bpm wrong and usually because they have a beatless intro and drop 4 bars before the main drop or have used weird encoders other than that its usually spot on as i can manually bpm the old way nodding my head and tapping my finger and get same results
ive tested on my own tracks ive made knowing what bpm i made them at and its pretty much bang on everytime.if you can nod your head in rhythm dont see why a pc cant
My Name isn't Jed it's the Number three (3) Not the letter (E)
im just stating facts and the obvious !

the song at 33rpm sounds about right to me you can actually hear the samples
clearly and they dont sound to time stretched and frantic!

Personal computers dont have Brains they have CPU's there is a great amount of difference
between the two. Humans have to command the computer to instruct and execute.
if ive got my maths right it would be 60.680000000000000000000000000016 bpm at 33/3rd dont need another encode to know thats 88 house
wouldn't that be 121.36 ?
DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote:just run a bpm checker on it and its in the range of bpm for that era its fine its running at 82 slightly fast maybe dunno if you recorded on zero pitch but it would sound a lot further off at 33
DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote:lot of tunes in that year come in the range of 78 to 83 smells like the roach is burnings is ridiculously fast i used bpm checker not my usual prog as i couldnt load mp3 to scan but its usually very close
the doctor and tik tak - roach is burning remix runs at 89.2
you keep referring to the range inaccurately
there is no and has never been any house / hardcore / dnb / jungle at these speeds

so i guess you should stick to nodding your head as you say
as your bpm counter doesn't seem to be working.

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by AlexWise » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:19 pm

I don't think 33 would be right for it, I'm going with Ornette's idea that it's in the middle some place.
Something fucked up speed wise on the master to result in this bizarre tempo on both speeds.

One thing is certain though, if the tune is meant to be played at 45 for the press... it wasn't made at that tempo originally.
It's either one hell of a strange decision for the final press from the artist, or a mistake by the people pressing it.

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by AlexWise » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:00 am

Would be bloody interesting if we could confirm this.
Do we have any leads on the tune or pressing plant?

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by J3D » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:07 am

quite possibly recorded on a 32kHz DAT and played back at 44.1 kHz Sample rate
by the Mastering engineer !!

some of the older akai reel to reels ,tape drives and 12 trackers had 2 speed settings
High Quality (19 cm per second) or Normal (9.5 cm per second) aswell which would
give a similar effect if recorded then played back on the opposite speed during mixdown mode.

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by AlexWise » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:23 am

Could be.
The tune unfortunately uses famous samples which have been used at all types of speeds which is causing this confusion over it.
The Roller break (Prodigy one) for example has been used at all speeds so it's tuff as hell to pin it down.
What I was trying to listen to was the subs, cos past a certain point if you slow it down too much you reach a place that the producer would not have gone to in freq/keys for any speed of tune.
Also the same in pitching up too far.

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by nebkins » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:45 am

Whats there to confirm? Its definitely a 45rpm tune pressed too fast like SMF IV - Twisted Bungle

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by lien » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:00 pm

I've only ever heard out at 45 & play it at 45. Sounds alright at that speed to me :)

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by Ornette » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:13 pm

J3D wrote:My Name isn't Jed it's the Number three (3) Not the letter (E)
Jamie Three Decks!
nebkins wrote:Whats there to confirm? Its definitely a 45rpm tune pressed too fast like SMF IV - Twisted Bungle
Do you think Twisted Bungle is pressed fast?

Sounds about right to me, Vol. 4 was after all a ridiculous tempo (except for Skoob ;) ) and original Guillotene was pretty fast too.

I've actually played Twisted Bungle at +8 mixing into some dnb hard step tunes back in 1996 / 97 and worked a treat - it one of my fave best tunes actually, it is :)

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Re: 33 or 45 - Opinions Needed

Post by DJ-DR34DNOUGHT » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:28 pm

J3D wrote:
DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote: jed no ones bickering except you weve just stated what it says on proverbial tin your the 1 denying it. i get 5 in 100 that bpm wrong and usually because they have a beatless intro and drop 4 bars before the main drop or have used weird encoders other than that its usually spot on as i can manually bpm the old way nodding my head and tapping my finger and get same results
ive tested on my own tracks ive made knowing what bpm i made them at and its pretty much bang on everytime.if you can nod your head in rhythm dont see why a pc cant
My Name isn't Jed it's the Number three (3) Not the letter (E)
im just stating facts and the obvious ! (my names dr34dnought which is dreadnought thats not a 3 and 4 so not so obvious ?)

the song at 33rpm sounds about right to me you can actually hear the samples
clearly and they dont sound to time stretched and frantic!

Personal computers dont have Brains they have CPU's there is a great amount of difference
between the two. Humans have to command the computer to instruct and execute. (metronomes dont have brains or cpus but they manage just fine its nothing to do with grey matter its generally a fixed pattern and patterns can be predicted by maths which pcs and your brain uses so in this case there not much different)
if ive got my maths right it would be 121.36 bpm at 33/3rd dont need another encode to know thats 88 house speeds
wouldn't that be 121.36 ? (yes i refer to the range as i use it halved so any mistakes halved i could x2 for you but thought it was quite obvious )
DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote:just run a bpm checker on it and its in the range of bpm for that era its fine its running at 164 slightly fast maybe dunno if you recorded on zero pitch but it would sound a lot further off at 33
DJ-DR34DNOUGHT wrote:lot of tunes in that year come in the range of 156 to 166 smells like the roach is burnings is ridiculously fast i used bpm checker not my usual prog as i couldnt load mp3 to scan but its usually very close
the doctor and tik tak - roach is burning remix runs at 178.4
(feel better now ?)

you keep referring to the range inaccurately (its not inaccurate its more accurate halved as any discrepency is halved)
there is no and has never been any house / hardcore / dnb / jungle at these speeds (put the tracks on i said see what bpm you come up with then eat your hat i only referd to house at the speed of 120 bpm ism which was a later post)

so i guess you should stick to nodding your head as you say
as your bpm counter doesn't seem to be working.
(check my mixsets think youll find its works fine and nodding of the heads default when musics on shurely )

heres a load of trax the JeD says doesnt fall in this range 121.36
k-klass - why 122bpm ish
second phase - mind 2 mind 121.8
b sides - the tape remix
E - NGC 891 121.5
im staring at a list of 600 bpmd and they fall in the range u say they dont was trying to have a discusion about it. but end up having to defend meself cos some picky buggers picking holes for no need

if you think everytime some one new see your names they see jamie 3 decks your wrong this is the net most would assume you meant jed unless they new of your previous name

black gold in them there hills jed
agreed deffo a 45 tune

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